Hallo CCCamp-Entitäten,
dem c3sustainability-Team "c3sus" ist unser Pool ins Auge gefallen.
Auf der Mailingliste[0] wurde soeben eine Debatte über den Pool vom Zaun
getreten und wie mir scheint, wird hier mit einer Menge Halbwissen
betreffend dem exakten Stromverbrauch gedealt.
Interessierten Entitäten kann ich empfehlen, sich die Mailingliste mal
näher anzuschauen. Ich habe im Archiv[1] der Mailingliste gesucht und
scheinbar ist dies das erste mal, dass das Thema auf der Mailingliste
besprochen wird. Also eine gute Gelegenheit für Pool-Orga-Entitäten sich
einzumischen und den eigenen Standpunkt klar zu machen.
Disclaimer:
ich war Nutzer vom Pool und fand die Idee & Umsetzung ziemlich cool.
c3sus hat jedoch recht damit, dass der Energieverbrauch nicht gerade
ökonomisch ist und das Projekt eine gewisse Dekadenz hatte.
Ich sprach am 26.08. via Mastodon mit einer Entität vom c3sus über den
Pool und behauptete, dass wir keinem den Kopf abreißen und man mit uns
reden könne [citation needed].
Wollte ich hier mal geschrieben haben, bevor mein Name irgendwann mal
ohne Kontext auftaucht.
<3
saxnot
[0]: https://hacc.uber.space/mailman/listinfo/c3sustainability
[1]: https://hacc.uber.space/mailman/private/c3sustainability/
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [c3sus] Discussion about the high power drain pool heater on
the Camp 2019
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 19:50:26 +0200
From: chinatriesto(a)nuke.africa
To: c3sustainability(a)hacc.uber.space
> There is a rule that consumers >=20kW should be announced to c3power
> before the event.
20kW (20000W)? No, it was 2000W (2kW).
Quote: "... if you are bringing big power consumers (>2kW) you
necessarily need to speak to our power team (camp2019(a)c3power.de). "
Quote in german: " ... größere Verbraucher mitbringt (> 2 kW), meldet
euch unbedingt bei Team Power und sprecht das ab (camp2019(a)c3power.de). "
Before that part there is written:
English: It’s the same as for the water: please be thrifty and leave
hungry consumers (e.g. old fridges or likewise) at home.
german: Auch hier gilt: Seid sparsam und lasst überflüssige oder starke
Verbraucher (Stichwort in die Jahre gekommene Kühlschränke oder ähnliche
Kellerfunde) bitte direkt Zuhause.
Source: https://events.ccc.de/2019/05/24/wir-sind-in-der-natur-deal-with-it/
Backup:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190709204025/https://events.ccc.de/2019/05/24…
I was in the personal discussion next to the pool. The high power drain
pool was NOT known to c3power team. When they have seen it, they told me
and all other people standing around that they see this high power pool
heater for the first time.
I wrote "against the camp-rules" like you have quote me right. The
camp-rule was "if you are bringing big power consumers (>2kW) you
necessarily need to speak to our power team (camp2019(a)c3power.de).".
Have this been done? No. With other words - the camp-rules to report
such devices was ignored - like i wrote that.
And for the people who dont know about that high energy heater. The
story in short from my perspective:
I joined c3sus BECAUSE of this high power draining pool heater. This big
pool had no protection about heat dissipation because it was build out
of a plastic foil, EUR-pallet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EUR-pallet
and some ropes holding the water together. Thats why you need really
high power drain heaters running the whole time. They was running this
heater 24/7. On saturday the pool was covered the whole day. This was
also confirmed at a bigger discussion with c3power all standing next to
this(many people to confirm that they told its was unused again the
whole day). Up to this saturday this was for c3power a unknown high
power drain device. The pool people who made the pool told to all
critical people that was asking about the wasted energy that the diesel
generators would need some basic load. When this was told to me i had in
my mind "wtf? 20000W basic load? Times X generators??". C3power
confirmed later that this was a lie from the pool people and there is no
20000W basic load required from the generators. Also there was more then
enough load on the generators to be already out of the "basic load" -
without the additional 20000W power drain for creating pool-heat.
The 20000W power drain was told to me by the person who have build up
this pool. I hope it was not even more power drain because the person
already lied to the people about this "required minimum power drain from
the generators".
Yes, Fengel told me at the big discussion that the 20000W can be brought
by the generators without any technical issues. But that was NEVER my
point! I joined c3sus because of generating electricity with diesel by
low efficiency, the diesel generators dissipate heat. This heat is
completely unused and been blown out to the environment. Then 20000W of
this low efficiency generated electricity is been taken and then been
used to again create heat - that have not be used for the most of the
day because the pool was covered by a foil.
This triggered me so much, that i had to get active and do something
against that.
And to be clear: There are ways to have much building-fun into creating
a sustainable, warm pool for the camp. I am not for "no pool at all". I
am for "never again a pool that gets heated by electricity that is been
created by inefficient diesel generators. There was so much heat you
could catch up by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_collector
at the camp.
Maybe someone from c3power is reading here:
If you make the rule, quote "you necessarily need to speak to our power
team", and the people ignore you, why arent there ANY consequences when
its ignored? Do you want that the people remember the c3power people
like "it does not matter what they say"?
On 2019-09-28 21:39, Benjamin Lipp wrote:
> On 28/09/2019 23:19, chinatriesto(a)nuke.africa wrote:
>> And dont forget that the 210000W cover things like the 24/7 running
>> 20000W pool heater that was been put there on the camp - against the
>> camp-rules.
>
> I am jumping in on just this single point to make clear: the pool
> heater
> was /not/ running against camp rules.
>
> There is a rule that consumers >=20kW should be announced to c3power
> before the event. This is to allow c3power to do the planning and
> safety
> planning of the power network. If such a consumer is not announced
> beforehand, and it is found that it doesn't actually harm the safety of
> the power network, there is no need for c3power to stop this consumer.
> The pool heater was not harming the safety of the power network.
>
> Please stop spreading that the pool was against the camp rules.
>
> – Blipp
--
c3sustainability mailing list
c3sustainability(a)hacc.uber.space
https://hacc.uber.space/mailman/listinfo/c3sustainability
Moin,
(Irgendwie war die Terminfindung nicht so eindeutig und deswegen würde
ich das jetzt einfach mal auf morgen Abend festsetzen, bevor das noch
Wochen in die Zukunft rückt und die Erinnerungen verblassen.)
Wie lief es auf dem Camp, was war gut, was war schlecht, Ideen für
nächstes Mal? Anregungen, Anmerkungen, Feedback und vielleicht ein paar
Zahlen zur Statistik.
Dienstag Abend 03.09.2019 20:00 wie gewohnt in Spaces und Mumble[0].
Sammeln würde ich wie gewohnt im Pad[1]. Ich weiß, dass sicher nicht
alle Zeit haben werden, gerade so spontan, aber viellecht trotzdem was
loswerden oder fragen möchten, tragt es dann bitte einfach ins Pad ein.
--larsan
[0]: https://stratum0.org/wiki/Mumble
[1]: https://pad.stratum0.org/p/camp2019#lineNumber=1062